this is exactly like I feel and thanks to Jonathan for expressing my
feeling. also thanks for the admonition to calm down I needed it.

thanks again Jonathan for the hard work you have done for many members
of the group. You are a great contributor to what makes the group great.

thanks,

joseph

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [Nuestros Ranchos] Join Rootsweb: Nuestros Ranchos Members
facing the gallows!
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 14:53:07 -0700
From: Mexican FHR
To: Puentes, Joseph

Hello,

I have seen the growth of the Ranchos group, from the beginnings to the
present. And I may not be as frequent or vocal of a member that I should
be. But when I read, Joseph's response, I can understand his point of view,
and also the point of view of the members.

So I, would like to put in my 2 cents, on this discussion.

First, of all, Joseph calm down, I am sure that the statement about
"satisfying Joseph" was not made to offend. But if it was those members,
deserve what they reap. So, please don't be offended, by the statement.
And please, pretty please, keep up the hard work and effort that you do on
behalf of the Ranchos community.

Second. The requirements of membership into the Ranchos and Nuestros Ranchos
community were established by Joseph, back in about February of 2003. And
every person, who has wanted to join the Ranchos and the Nuestros Ranchos
groups, and even the Ciudad Juarez group, has had to agree, to those
requirements. Several times, there have been polls about changing the
requirements, for membership. The results, of the polls, have been to leave
the requirements, as they are now. So it is not just about satisfying
Joseph. It is about satisfying the requirements established by the group
membership.

As Joseph, stated there are many, many other internet groups, out there is
Cyberspace, that deal with the states of Aguascalientes, Jalisco, and
Zacatecas (the 3 states covered by Ranchos) and for the rest of Mexico. I
can tell you, that Ranchos is by far the most valuable and the best group
out there. Why because, one of the requirements of membership, is that we
do our own research. That we work, looking for our ancestors and kindred
dead, using whatever resource, which we can get our little fingers on. Yes
that includes looking at what other researchers have complied, using other
researchers to do lookups, to do research that we can't do for ourselves, or
to help us satisfy the Group's requirements. But we do research, we do our
homework. Not like on some of the Rootsweb sites, which post: "I want to
know everything about the Puentes surname.", "My family is from Jalisco,
could someone send me, my pedigree chart with at least 10 generations." And
so on. I am sure that any of you, who are subscribed to any mailing list or
message forum, have seen such messages. They do not generate much interest
or responses. Where as here in the ranchos group, the research questions,
are what I call intelligent questions. We have done our homework, before we
ask the question. Sometimes, I know we are at a brick wall and send out a
message of despair, trying to see if some one else in the Ranchos Community,
can help us. As far, as I am concerned, that is fine. Because, the members
of the Ranchos group, have already paid for the privilege of asking such
questions, with their completion of the Ranchos requirements.

I too have offered in the past, to help the members, of the Ranchos
community, with meeting the requirements and with their research. At times,
I may be slow, and other times I may have dropped the ball, on responding to
and answering questions. Please remind me, when I do.

And last of all, the requirements, for group membership are not that hard to
meet. If you don't have your report ready, talk to Joseph, it is as simple
as that. For example, I don't have any Mexican Ancestry in my blood. But,
my wife is from Ciudad Guzman, Jalisco, Mexico. And I am doing the
research, for her lines in Mexico. Also, wife doesn't have any lines, which
go through Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua. But I belong to the Juarez group.
!!!Why?!!! Because I wrote. And asked Joseph, if I could join.

Thanks for hearing me out. And Remember that the requirements are not
Joseph's requirements, but the requirements of the Ranchos community.

Jonathan Walker

AKA Mexicanfhr

-----Original Message-----

From: general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
[mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Joseph
Puentes

Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 2:02 PM

To: general@nuestrosranchos.org

Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Join Rootsweb: Nuestros Ranchos Members
facingthe gallows!

Ernie Alderete wrote:

> If we fill in a few blanks, that should satisfy Joseph.

>

I don't think you are understanding. Right now there is a group for Jalisco
on Rootsweb. Right now there is a group for Zacatecas on Rootsweb. Right now
there is a group for Aguascalientes on Rootsweb. Why was it necessary to
build "Ranchos" and then "Nuestros Ranchos" since these groups were already
in existence? In fact Ernie why did you join "Nuestros Ranchos" since these
groups were already in existence?????

I think many members of the group agree with the idea of trying to keep
"Nuestros Ranchos" for those that are serious about their genealogy. So then
why the statement about satisfying "Joseph"? It's not about satisfying
joseph it is about being serious about your research or at least "lifting
your finger" the smallest bit to imitate someone who is serious about their
research.

Also think about my "joke" of a definition of being serious:

1) agree to do your own research

2) demonstrate that by sending in a representative tree showing your
connection to Jalisco, Zacatecas, and/or Aguascalientes. BUT if you are just
beginning and have NOTHING to submit then submit a sample of your family's
Oral History that indicates you have a connection to Jalisco, Zacatecas,
and/or Aguascalientes.

The above two requirements are all it takes to become a life member of the
Nuestros Ranchos group. To meet those two requirements requires just the
smallest bit of effort and about 10 minutes of time. Imagine this scenario.
The laziest genealogist in the world wants to be a member of Nuestros
Ranchos because he/she doesn't want to "lift a finger" to do a bit of work
in searching for their own roots. . .no they would much rather find others
to do the work and "prey" on those that do all the hard work and when they
find one that has tapped into one of the branches of their tree they swoop
in and gather all the information saying thanks as they build and build and
build on their genealogy having done none of the work. *[rofs] Anyway to be
a member for life would require just opening up an email to
moderator@nuestrosranchos.org and just writing down the names of their
grandparents and telling where they were from also maybe tossing in a
"guessed" date of birth and matrimony. Now imagine that you find a person
that is just not willing to even do that or even to email the moderator and
ask for an extension because sending in that 10 minute email is just too
laborious of a task to accomplish during the holidays. Well let me tell you
what, if they are unwilling to even contact me or unmotivated to write a 10
minute email then they don't fit into this absurd definition of a "serious
researcher."

Do me a favor and drop the phrase "satisfy Joseph" it offends me.

I'm trying my hardest to keep this group from becoming another Rootsweb.

. .because if it does become another Rootsweb then there is no reason for it
to exist. And believe me to drop the requirements for membership will mean
becoming just like Rootsweb.

I would like to invite every member who wants Nuestros Ranchos to be like
Rootsweb to just unsubscribe themselves and participate more on Rootsweb.
Below are the instructions for joining the Rootswebs email lists for:
Jalisco, Zacatecas, and/or Aguascalientes.

joseph