By MariaCortez |

Maria de Gabay y Ana Francisca de Gabay eran hermanas. Este dato lo
encontre en el libro de Jose Luis Vasquez y Rodriguez de Frias "Genealogia
de Nochistlan Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia". El capitulo 58 del libro
contiene esta informacion.

Estube revisando mi archivo y parece que mis datos concuerdan con los de
John. Tengo el matrimonio de Diego Alonso de Hermosillo el 23 Feb 1645 con
Luisa Munoz de Nava. El nombre Diego Alonso de Hermosillo o Diego Ramirez
de Hermosillo es un nombre que aparece frecuentemente entre estas familias.
Nicolas Ramirez de Hermosillo (hermano del Diego casado con Luisa) tambien
tuvo un hijo llamado Diego Alonso Ramirez de Hermosillo que nacio en
1667. Lamentablemente no tengo mas datos acerca de Juana Alderete.

Maria

> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Muchas gracias Maria,
> La informacion me es muy util. Me pregunto cual era la relacion de
> Maria de Gabay con Ana Francisca de Gabay la esposa de Lope Ruiz Esparza?
>
> Jaime
>

Maria de Gabay:

In the book: "Historia de Teocaltiche Pueblo de La Region Caxcana Nueva
Galicia, Zona de Los Altos de Jalisco" by Nicolas de Anda Sanchez. there is
a listing of parents who confirmed their children in 1634 and the names of
the children.
I found: Jose de La Cruz y Maria Gabay o Navarro and their children
confirmed were: Tomasa, Josepha and Martin.

I tried to find more information about this couple, hoping to find who their
parents and grandparents were, in FamilySearch.org.but the only thing I
found was the date of christening for Jose de La Cruz, 14 Mar, 1689.
Nuestra Señora de Los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco. His parents were:
Francisco Tomas and Maria de La Cruz.

I hope somebody else will have better luck researching this couple. If we
can find either Maria's or Francisca's birth certificate we will have found
Petronila's de Moctezuma's parents.

PD: Jaime eres bilingue?

John Gonzalez.

----- Original Message -----
From: "mcortez"
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 15:51
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Maria de Gabay

> Maria de Gabay y Ana Francisca de Gabay eran hermanas...

NOTICE

Please notice that the Jose de La Cruz in the second paragraph can not be
the same Jose de La Cruz given in the first paragraph, the dates don't
match, unless the year is a typographical error.

John Gonzalez.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Gonzalez" <1gnzlz@verizon.net>
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 17:31
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Maria de Gabay+

Maria de Gabay:

In the book: "Historia de Teocaltiche Pueblo de La Region Caxcana Nueva
Galicia, Zona de Los Altos de Jalisco" by Nicolas de Anda Sanchez. there is
a listing of parents who confirmed their children in 1634 and the names of
the children.
I found: Jose de La Cruz y Maria Gabay o Navarro and their children
confirmed were: Tomasa, Josepha and Martin.

I tried to find more information about this couple, hoping to find who their
parents and grandparents were, in FamilySearch.org.but the only thing I
found was the date of christening for Jose de La Cruz, 14 Mar, 1689.
Nuestra Señora de Los Dolores, Teocaltiche, Jalisco. His parents were:
Francisco Tomas and Maria de La Cruz.

I hope somebody else will have better luck researching this couple. If we
can find either Maria's or Francisca's birth certificate we will have found
Petronila's de Moctezuma's parents.

PD: Jaime eres bilingue?

John Gonzalez.

Thanks for checking John. However, I don't think this is the same Maria de
Gabay because the daughter that I descend from, Petrona de Siordia, was
married on 14 Feb 1616. That would make Petrona's year of birth around
1592. If Maria was about 25 years old at the time of Petrona's birth, then
she would've been born around 1567. In 1634 she woul've been in her 60's,
so that makes her a bit old to be the mother named in the confirmation
records. She may very likely be a granddaughter of the Maria de Gabay
married to Pedro Fernandez de Vaulus. Pedro and Maria's children were
baptized in Aguascalientes.

Maria

> From: "John Gonzalez" <1gnzlz@verizon.net>
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Maria de Gabay+
>
> Maria de Gabay:
>
> In the book: "Historia de Teocaltiche Pueblo de La Region Caxcana Nueva
> Galicia, Zona de Los Altos de Jalisco" by Nicolas de Anda Sanchez. there is
> a listing of parents who confirmed their children in 1634 and the names of
> the children.
>
>

Hi Sofia:

Francisca was born in 1577, so her mother, Petronila, would have been 27
years old if she was born in 1550, which sounds like a reasonable age.

John Gonzalez

----- Original Message -----
From: "sophia"
To:
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 16:36
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Maria de Gabay

>
> Hi,
>
> Petrolina in the LDS records has her birth around 1550. Is this incorrect.
> I descend from Francisca her daughter.
>
> Sofia

Hi Maria:

What you say makes a lot of sense. The problem is that the confirmation
record for 1634 has no data at all for the parents. It would have been nice
if they had included at least their age. I guess we can't have everything
handed to us, genealogy wouldn't be any fun.

John Gonzalez

----- Original Message -----
From: "mcortez"
To:
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 16:08
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Maria de Gabay

> Thanks for checking John...

John, Maria, Jaime, Daniel and other genealogists interested in Petronila de Moctezuma:

A couple of years ago I came across this María Gabai as part of my research on the founding families of Aguascalientes. I was intrigued by the name, thinking that she was directly related to María Gabai de Moctezuma. She is not. She is a descendant of Christobal Navarro, Maria's brother. Here is what I found.

Maria Gabai was an illegitimate child of Christobal Navarro, one of three known children of Martin Navarro and Petronila de Moctezuma (Francisca, Maria and Christobal). Not much is known about Christobal Navarro, but his name pops-up every now-and-then in church records. I probably would have missed Maria Gabai altogether had it not been for the marriage of one of her descendants to Elvira de Ulloa in 1689. Joseph de Torres married Elvira de Ulloa on 12 Apr 1689 at the church of Ntra. Sra. de los Dolores (source: LDS Film 0639756 Marriages 1753-1790 Teocaltiche, Jal. Mexico). A cattle driver from Nochistlan, Joseph was the great-grandson of Christobal Navarro, and his "pretensa" Elvira de Ulloa was the great-granddaughter of Francisca Gabai. In other words, Joseph de Torres was a third cousin of Elvira de Ulloa (Civil: VII, Canon: 4). This marriage required a dispensation from the Archbishop of Guadalajara. The information was extracted from an LDS microfilm by Maria de la Luz Montejano-Hilton and published in her very useful book "Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara" (No. 2518)

Teocaltiche, Jal. Enero 5 de 1689. Exp. 107-Dispensa de cuarto grado de consanguinidad.- Joseph de Torres, español de 30 años de edad, de oficio arriero, natural y vecino del Pueblo de Nochistlán, hijo legítimo de Juan de Torres, difunto y de Josepha de la Cruz, vecinos de dicho pueblo, y viudo de María de Lomelín; doña Elvira de Ulloa, española de 25 años de edad, natural y vecina del Pueblo de Teocaltiche, hija legítima de Juan de Ulloa y de Mariana de Ruvalcaba. Declaración del pretenso: Que Maria Gabai, mi abuela materna, era prima hermana de su abuela de la dicha contrayente. Declaración de Pedro Ortiz de Anda, español de 66 anos de edad: Cristóbal Navarro, fue hermano de Francisca Gabai, dicho Cristóbal Navarro, tuvo una hija natural llamada Maria Gabai, dicha Maria Gabai tuvo una hija de legitimo matrimonio llamada Josepha de la Cruz, madre del contrayente. Y Francisca Gabai, hermana del dicho Cristóbal Navarro, tuvo una hija de legitimo matrimonio llamada María Ruiz, y dicha María Ruiz, tuvo un hijo de legítimo matrimonio llamado Juan de Ulloa, padre de la contrayente. 10 fojas.

According to the information in Nicolas de Anda-Sanchez's book, the names of Joseph de La Cruz and Maria Gabai (or Navarro) are among those of the parents who confirmed their children in 1634. Confirmed were Tomasa, Josepha y Martin. This Josepha is the one that later married Juan de Torres, father of Joseph de Torres.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Regards,
Bill Figueroa

----- Original Message -----
From: "mcortez"
To:
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Maria de Gabay

Thanks for checking John. However, I don't think this is the same Maria
de Gabay because the daughter that I descend from, Petrona de Siordia, was
married on 14 Feb 1616. That would make Petrona's year of birth around
1592. If Maria was about 25 years old at the time of Petrona's birth,
then...

Maria

Bill,

Thank you very much for sharing this information on Maria de Gabai. It's
difficult to keep the names straight when they repeat so often. The only
way I can do it is by annotating my sources after each entry, as you have
done.

Maria

> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:18:57 -0500
> From: "Bill Figueroa"
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Maria de Gabay
> To:
> Message-ID: <001801c8e43a$ff2bb630$6501a8c0@hp4>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> John, Maria, Jaime, Daniel and other genealogists interested in Petronila
> de Moctezuma:
>
> A couple of years ago I came across this Mar?a Gabai as part of my research
> on the founding families of Aguascalientes. I was intrigued by the name,
> thinking that she was directly related to Mar?a Gabai de Moctezuma. She is
> not. She is a descendant of Christobal Navarro, Maria's brother.

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