By ddnoonan |

Happy early New Year! primos from Jalisco Posting this in case members have clues on some deadends in my Jalisco genealogy. This is my dad's side of the house. He passed away this past summer but I had his DNA completed. Y DNA: IP37 and surname: Gutierrez.

The earliest documented ancestor I found on his dad's paternal side is Victor Gutierrez (1810-?) married to Vicenta Vasquez (1820-?) both from Comanjo Jalisco. Their child, Modesto Gutierrez (1845-1897) was then born in Cieneguilla, Aguascalientes and eventually married Zenona Gutierrez (1850-?) from San Marcos Guerrero I believe). Their child was Juan Gutierrez (1876-1930) who later married Maria Cipriana Tabarez (1880-1930) both from Aguascalientes and their son was my dad's paternal GF, Felipe Gutierrez (1899-1965), also born in Aguascalientes.

What is interesting is that my dad's Y DNA is not common in the surname Gutierrez. I could not test his brothers' DNA or any other male relatives as they had all passed away but I tested his sister (my aunt) and they are brother and sister so they had the same parents. Common surnames with this Y DNA is Flores or Valdez de Flores. It is not impossible to have other names but some thoughts could be a relative changed their name. I realize this is a big mystery so I am putting it out there in case any of this sounds remotely familiar.

On a side note, Zenona Gutierrez' family all originate from Jalisco. Although not related to the YDNA side, if anyone has any relatives you can share - her parents were Josef V Gutierrez and Urbana Diaz (circa 1800). It appears Josef's parents were Vizente Gutierrez (1766) and Maria Josefa Aguilera (1778).

Thanks for any help!

jrefugioghermosillo

4 years 9 months ago

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Victor Gutierrez and Vicenta Vasquez baptized Maria Cleofas in 1861 in Villa Hidalgo, Jalisco; she was born on Cieneguilla. According to her partida, her grandparents were Fernando Gutierrez cc Andrea Medina, and Maximo Vasquez cc Gregoria Ramirez:
Source: Maria Cleofa baptism:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVSS-XW5
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-5996-M9?i=48&cc=1874591

My guess is that someone in your paternal Gutierrez line was an hijo natural and used his mother’s surname (Gutierrez), and his biological father was a Valdes de Flores.

Good luck!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

I was thinking this too. I was hoping it might be something very close like maybe my dad having another father but I cannot prove this. Two options are the male changed his surname for some reason or the mother had a child out of wedlock you say so I would be looking for a female with the surname Gutierrez. I did see the line you noted above but wasn't sure if it was documented. Thank you - I will update the tree and keep looking.

I'm afraid that if you're relying on this level of DNA Y chromosome analysis you may not get much insight without additional research. The I-P37 haplogroup is just big. To quote one of the great comic writers, this quote applies here as well: "Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is."
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/I;name=I-P37

My paternal line also belongs to the I-P37 haplogroup, but I have needed to do further analysis to refine my particular line down to I-FT163369 haplogroup. The issue with using this to search is that last names changed from father to son often and for many reasons. In my instance for example, Juan Lozano's (1530, Lobon, Spain) offspring used a variety of surnames, including Lozano, de Isla, Gonzalez, Gonzalez de Isla, etc.

Keep hunting because you will eventually make a breakthrough. For instance, have you thought about upgrading your dad's DNA sample to get a higher resolution that would help with potential matches? In my case, I did this and all of a sudden I was matching with various folks who had a Lozano last name for their paternal lines--this seemed odd at the time, but of course now makes sense!

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